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And you wonder why developers 'hate' PC gamers ...


i came across this article and thought is was interesting reading so here it is -


Crysis 2 is released on March 22, but if you've got a little time and even less scruples, you can play it right now. With almost depressing inevitability, an entire developer build of the game has been leaked online, allowing PC gamers early, free access to Crytek's latest eye-shagger. Killzone 3 was also recently leaked.


And this is why developers don't give a sh*t about PC gamers anymore, folks.


It's become increasingly hard to sit back and say that videogame piracy isn't as bad as people say when stuff like this happens. This past week, I suggested that software pirates are fine so long as they admit they're thieves and recognize the potential harm they're doing to the industry. The pirates in question got utterly offended, acting more outrageous than an innocent man would do if accused of a crime he didn't commit. Apparently, guilt makes you more indignant than innocence.


All I can think in response to that is ... how dare you act offended when you do stuff like this?


Anybody who says they've not downloaded something illegally is usually a liar. Most of you reading this have downloaded some songs, or a movie, before. Personally, I legally purchase Blu-rays in store and music via iTunes, but I cannot honestly say I have always done this. We've all helped ourselves to things we shouldn't, and we should have the integrity to admit it.


There is, however, one major difference between movies/music, and videogames. In the case of movies, most of a film's success rides on its box office performance. That's where you initially make your profit. In the case of music, the artists obtain very little money off their officially released tracks, instead making it back with live performances. In the case of videogames, their only source of monetary recuperation is that initial sale. Unlike movies and music, which have multiple avenues for profit, there is only one option for the game industry.


This is not to make the ripping off of movies and music morally superior. I'm not talking about the morality here. I'm talking about damage. Videogame piracy is potentially far more damaging than movie or music piracy, because it cuts into the only vein through which a game's cash flows. There are no concerts or theatrical releases for Crysis 2. Any potential merchandise has a niche audience at best, and most of that cash will go to the manufacturer.


The game industry is also a cutthroat, harsh business. If a game doesn't sell, it won't get a sequel, and the studio itself might be torn apart. Just looking at EA, we all saw what happened to Pandemic. They didn't perform in the sales department and were wiped out without question.


Your noble justifications are not fkng cutting it anymore. In my last rant about piracy, one person said they pirated "out of necessity" and seemed to get some people agreeing with him. Really? Necessity? It is necessary that you play a videogame? Since when was a luxury item like a videogame a necessity, to the point where you get to steal it? A fkng bit of bread for a dirt-poor family is a necessity, son. Not your stupid videogame.


It is not necessary. It is not noble, either. You're not fighting the good fight against DRM, because games will get ripped off regardless of the DRM put in. I hardly blame EA for its reliance on SecuROM in the past. I used to think very ill of EA for doing it, but how can I now? You people will clamor and claw at an early developer build of Crysis 2, just to get out of paying for it. I barely blame publishers using any kind of "Draconian" DRM they want anymore. The only thing pirates do is justify it.


2D Boy's World of Goo was released without DRM, and the creators said they trusted their audience. One of the two-man development team, Ron Carmel, noted afterwards that he was seeing multiple torrents with 500 seeders and 300 leechers, and added that the piracy rate was at about 90%. This was 2D Boy's reward for trusting gamers. This is what they got for making a game easy to obtain, but easy to steal. Really guys, f%#k you for that.


Some believe they win the argument by changing the terminology. It's not theft, they'll argue, but copyright infringement. So? That's not better. Some countries consider it worse. The legal terminology for piracy differs from country to country anyway, and simply calling theft by another name doesn't stop it from being a shitty thing to do. Some believe that it's only stealing -- therefore only wrong -- if what has been stolen ceases to be used by the owner. Pirated games are copies and the owners still have the original, therefore it's not theft.


Bullshit. You can steal a person's ideas, you can plagiarize their writing or music. The originator still has access to the idea, but you still stole it.


I've seen some pirates attempt to justify their bullshit by likening it to the used game market. I'm a very vocal supporter of that market, and I find this retort so stupid that it barely warrants a response. However, since it invariably comes up, I'll explain that used games have already been sold, so the money has been made on the product. That's an early, major difference to piracy, which has no initial sale. Furthermore, GameStop notes that the trade-in credit of used games often goes directly back to the industry, as people trade old games in for brand new ones. I have done that for years, so really, used game trading is a recycling process. Piracy, obviously, is not.


Another popular response is, "I wasn't going to buy it anyway." Amazing, and a lie. If you weren't going to buy it, why the f%#k are you playing it? If there was no illegal way to get it, and you wanted it bad enough, you'd have paid. You're just being a cheap b&*%#@d, and you're too spineless to admit it.


I know people who pirate the occasional game, as I'm sure most of us do. They're not inherently bad people. They're not evil master criminals. They are, however, the reason why the PC market is so easily disregarded by the majority of publishers. PC gamers sit back and complain about how Bulletstorm is only getting a console demo, or how a roleplaying game has been "dumbed down" to make it simple enough for a controller. Who can honestly blame the publisher, though? If I were EA, I would actually pull the PC version of Crysis 2 right now.


There's that old story about three people on a camping trip. They get lost, their food supply is dwindling. One camper decided it'll hurt nobody if he helps himself to a little extra. The second camper thinks the same. Likewise for the third. They end up with no food left because their individual acts of petty theft combined to create one large dent in the supply. The story has many variations, but the message is the same, and it is the perfect way of describing piracy. An individual pirate is not a bad thing. In fact, some groups argue that a little piracy is helpful to the market, thanks to word-of-mouth recommendations and simple free advertising. However, when those little grasping hands combine to form great big talons that are ripping huge chunks out of a videogame's potential for success, we have a problem.


I don't want to act morally superior to videogame pirates because I am not morally superior to them. However, they have nobody to blame but themselves for developers favoring consoles over PC. It's become increasingly hard for me to rail against DRM or even Sony's stupid Firmware updates, because #$@^ like this keeps happening. Not only are pirates thieving games, they're helping themselves to leaked, incomplete builds that might not reflect the finished product, and thus they're distributing something that might make the game look worse than it is.


Sorry, but that's kind of pathetic. Sure, it's easy for a developer to blame piracy for poor sales, but do you know who made that an easy thing to do? The people who are out there pirating the games in the first place.


You might think that what you're doing is harmless. On an individual level, it is. But it's not just you doing it. There are heaps of you. You're doing harm to an industry you should be supporting if you want more good games, and there is literally no excuse for you. If you can't afford it, suck it up. There are lots of things most of us can't afford, and we don't go out stealing them. If you think DRM is bad, don't buy the game. Don't just fkng help yourself to it illegally, because all that does is qualify the DRM in the first place. Anything you can use to justify piracy is easily refuted because, guess what, piracy ain't bloody justifiable.


I've tried to argue in the corner of pirates before, but screw it. It's not a corner that deserves to be fought in. I would, in fact, encourage developers to ignore the PC market altogether now. Sorry, but why should anybody support the platform? Sure, there are paying customers, and it would suck for them, but what kind of businessman would open a store in a city where stores are robbed multiple times a day? An idiotic businessman.


Just have some Goddamn foresight for once. Look at what state the PC market is in, and look at where it could go, and recognize your part in it. The fact that some of you want this to happen to consoles as well is simply unbelievable. The PS3 now looks like it'll be going in the same direction as the PC, and it's somewhat disgusting


Grow up and recognize what you're doing. If you're not going to stop, at least have the balls to admit that you're helping to make the games industry a shittier place.


[Addendum: Some people are attempting to justify PC piracy by saying it happens on consoles too. Yes, of course it does. But "Look over here, they're doing it too" isn't a fkng justification. Besides which, the level of piracy on the PC is famously more prevalent than on consoles. Even on the Wii, it's not quite the same, as the Wii's primary demographic is different, and it's a demographic that doesn't pirate anywhere near as much. It still takes a lot more effort to f%#k with a console to make it play pirated games. Going back to the World of Goo example, 2D Boy recuperated many of its losses thanks to the WiiWare version, which was obviously a lot harder to steal. PC piracy is easier than console piracy, hence it is more prevalent. Of course, you know that, and you're hoping we don't.


You could argue a case for the PSP and DS and I wouldn't disagree with you. I am not saying, however, that piracy doesn't happen everywhere. This was a PC issue, however, and so I focused on PC piracy. If you want, I can dedicate another article to the DS, but I've addressed that in the past and don't feel I need to do it again just to make PC pirates feel better about themselves.


Furthermore, the fact that the build may have been leaked by an employee at EA or Crytek has nothing to do with anything. Doesn't mean you have to download it. I'd also simply lump that employee in with the pirates. That's obviously where his or her loyalties lie, so they're not really different. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who leaked it -- asshats are still downloading it, and will continue to do so, no matter where the files come from. If there wasn't an audience for it, nobody would have taken the risk in leaking it.


The twists and turns pirates are making to get out of a very simple request -- accept a little bit of responsibility -- is truly awe-inspiring.]


[Second Addendum: I think I was perhaps a bit harsh toward the general PC gaming population when I talked about developers ignoring the PC market. That made it sound like I was tarring all PC gamers with the same brush. I am very much into PC gaming myself, and would obviously love to see more PC games. It's slowly become my choice for several shooters and roleplaying games over the past year and a half. What I failed to communicate was that by ignoring the PC market, developers could potentially shame pirates in a "spoiled it for the rest of us" way, but even so, it was likely an unfair suggestion.


I stick by everything else -- that the PC market has earned its stigma, that piracy is theft, and that pirates should admit what they are and think about the potential long-term damage that widespread theft could do. As far as supporting the PC market goes, I do hope that games remain profitable on computers. That is, after all, why I am so concerned about PC piracy.]


written by Jim Sterling 9:00 AM on 13.02.2011


original articale :- http://www.destructo...crowdignite.com

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Guest =TS=Zoa

sharing and stealing are two different things, sharing copies of a game you purchased with a million people is not stealing that is sharing. Robing your local game stop and taking a million copies of a game you did not purchase and then reselling or sharing with a million people is stealing. simple as that

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sharing and stealing are two different things, sharing copies of a game you purchased with a million people is not stealing that is sharing. Robing your local game stop and taking a million copies of a game you did not purchase and then reselling or sharing with a million people is stealing. simple as that


I echo that!!

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sharing and stealing are two different things, sharing copies of a game you purchased with a million people is not stealing that is sharing. Robing your local game stop and taking a million copies of a game you did not purchase and then reselling or sharing with a million people is stealing. simple as that


Given that it is the same end product, how does merely changing the source switch it from theft to sharing? With this logic, I should be able to hack into your bank account, and transfer all your money, without it being counted as theft. After all, it is just data. It's not like I actually came to your house, and took all the cash out of your wallet.


If I give out a million copies of a download, vs giving out a million cd's that I aquired from GameStop both deprive the original source from that revenue that they should be receiving. Or does the million digital copies not count, just because I cannot directly see the company/people that I am affecting.



.... There should be no jusgement and treatment, until the proble is understood completely. Each case should be understood individually.

For example I have to run the game which is bought, paid and I am unable to run it because it is broken. There's a fix, but it requires an external ISO of original "stolen" game. Then there's a question- if I already paid for a game, am I able to get a content I have already paid for? Does it matter where I got the content for the key I own? often pirated games work much better than official. This is realted to Ubisoft, Atari, and many others. But I don't justify piracy at all. I just mean if someone haven't done the job it must be done by someone who can/ If des take money for unfinished released product, what is wrong if I will get an iso from a pirate who already made fixes to the game and took nothing in return. And there's big difference between thieves and ppl who just do the job.


This is the only reason I can see as justification for "piracy". If I have legally acquired the product, and the publisher is being stupid about making it work, I will work around any DRM they have implemented. However, the key to this is, I already OWN the product.



On the other hand, there is one hard moment. Some things are simply absend here. Often you cannot buy a disc of music or game, which is available somewhere. And if you feel, that you must get some info to be sufficient for communication with other inhabitants of this world and civilization, you end uo with the fact that you can't. Just because you are not equal, not sufficient, dumb, and do not deserve to get what others have for free or without proble. This is vicious circle wich must be broken.


I agree with this. However, I do not see software "piracy" as a solution to it at this point. If all you are doing is downloading and playing a game you haven't purchased, to the corporations, all you are saying is "I want this product, but am too lazy to pay for it." If you want to break this cycle of region-based releases, CONTACT the publisher, and tell them why they are not receiving your money. Until their product is no longer being used, they will not likely sit up and listen, and things will not change. They will just continue to push for more drastic punishments.



Maybe the idea of game is good, and you like it, but you don't want for your friends waste money for game they won't be able to play. You give them your game to play. Is that a robbery? From the greedy point of view, which already is an obligatory for the whole world, it is crime to not give money. it litearally means, some persons have full right to suck all the cash from your pocket, and if you disagree- you're robber.


It is robbery. You are intentionally depriving the corporation from the revenue that they have requested in exchange for the product. It is not a crime to not give money. All you have to do is not take the product. If everything was "give me what I want, but you will receive nothing in return", how well would society work? It would most likely be even worse off than what we are now.



Then it comes a question- if today there is so many unemployed, talented great moders, that are able to make a game for free, why ppl must buy the products of greedy companies which are firing all the devs and squeezing all the juice from them and consumers?


This is the key. People DO NOT need to buy the products of greedy corporations. This, however, does not justify "piracy". The difference between modders and corporations is how much compensation they are asking for. Modders have willingly given their product away for free.


Lets pretend there are 2 bicycle shops in town. Shop A gives away bikes for free, and Shop B charges $500 per bike. Does this give me the right to go into Shop B, and steal a bike? After all, Shop A is giving them away for free, so all bikes must be free.



Publishers find a good reason for hiding own selfish greedy lust. And they justify it by millions of new reasons every day, they use natural human needs as a weapon, a way to get own pockets pumped with cash. And this is not only games developing or game industry. It is whole life in this civilisation.If you hold for a moment you will see it is so. If you will see only one point of view you will support it, and aggravate it till monsrous levels. Consumers are executors, and the persons concerned in this have to do nothing at all. Just pump the cash. More you support them, more you get boken, and receive nothing in return.


This is why you need to stop pirating games that you wouldn't buy. If you want the publisher to disappear, don't let them know you "need" their product. Let them know that you would purchase their product if the terms were more favorable.



Just no need to support publishers and they will gone. The same is for pirates. But sometimes, pirates are correct. Because there must be a balance. If the price of the monopoly product is out of range for ppl, it must be solved.


If I am looking a buying a new car, and I feel the Ford is charging too much, does that give me justification to just steal a car? After all, that would solve the problem...

Games are not a monopoly product. Just look at the new releases list of Steam.



Information doesn't belong to anyone. Ppl must understand that thoughts you get can be already made by someone, and you just catched them. To claim they are yours is the highest crime. Information is the mind food. Cut the exchange of it, and the whole race will destroy itself.


If you can think the same thoughts as the programmers who worked on the game, why are you not creating your own version of the game?



You communicate with ppl, and you pay the price with your energy, and you receive joy as a compensation, which replenishes all the losees and let you feel alive. Nobody have right to act violently and control the natural way of things in the world for the sake of own profit.


How many of you have jobs? Do you get compensated for doing your job?

Maybe you should just talk to your boss, and tell him/her that you don't need to be paid anymore, because you will receive joy for compensation.


Why is it that people try to use this as justification (you enjoy working on it, so give it to me for free), but are never willing to do this themselves.



And PC users ready to pay for the product that is finished. I think, that PC users are more matured and wiser, if they won't buy and play unfinished games at all. This is without doubts a question of principle. And Publishers do not like when there's som obstacles on the way to their pockets. Thi is obvious. But frankly, I have played many games and 60-75% of them haven't been fixed at all. The issues still fall on the head as a rocks form volcano. Is that fair, that I paid and I haven't got the game that was described so highly? And I know that I can forgive, and find reasons to justify, but this will last forever. The best thing is to ignore publishers and devs at all.


The best thing to do is let the publisher know you are not satisfied with their product, and then quit buying any future products they release until they do step up their quality. But either way, do not download a copy of the game. This just tells them that you are still willing to play the game in its current form.



Maybe I am just biased, as I do develop software for a living, but the way I see things is simple. If something has been produced, whether it is physical or digital, the creator has the right to ask for whatever compensation they desire. It is now up to the potential purchaser to decide if they are willing to pay that for the product. If they are, everything is good. If they are not, they shouldn't try to justify the theft of the product.


If you disagree with how a publisher is handling the sale of their product, let them know. Maybe they will make an effort to fix it, especially if that means an increase in sales for them. Just be willing to follow through if they do fix it. Reward companies that care for their customers, and maybe things will improve.

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I am sorry if I came across as offended by you, as I mean no harm, and I understand where you are coming from. I saw where you said that you do not play games that you do not buy, and I completely stand by this. I also think that a lot of our ideals are similar.


My response was not directed at you, but I quoted you because you made a number of points that I am seeing pirates use to justify their actions, and it was convenient to do a point/counter-point argument by directly quoting them.


You made a comment about charging my friends for every word that comes out of my mouth. I believe that this is a valid right, to be able to charge for my ideas, if I so choose. Who else should be able to tell me what I can and cannot charge for. However, it is something that I do not do, as I feel it would be counterproductive, and not worth the effort.


Regarding Developer support being useless, I feel that part of it is that too many people are just taking the easy way out, and not complaining. If only 1% of the people that bought your product are saying its broken, is it worth the effort to try to fix? (Personally, I think it would be, but that isn't always the view that big developers take). Imagine what would happen if 90% of the consumers complained.




I could probably spend a few hours writing a complete response to everything in this thread, right down to minor details, but basically, I see things this way:

When something is created (whether physical or digital), its creator has the right to seek whatever compensation they choose. Any consumer of this creation should give the requested compensation, or not use the product. If the product is not as advertised, the consumer should be able to, at their discretion, return the product for a full refund, or work with the creator to get it to the advertised state.


In my "perfect" games world, there would be demos, and there would be no such thing as regional restrictions or DRM. Game servers would be software that can be installed on any computer by the end user, so multiplayer games would never die off because the producer shut down a computer somewhere. Games would also be reasonably priced. Developers would ensure their product works extremely well, and be willing to fix any issues that do arise. Consumers would all purchase the games that they want, and there would be no software piracy, as there would be no need for it.

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